Another bullet in the cake? No, this time I eat the cake.
I finally saw "Hate Rock" the long awaited - actually 23 hours download - documentary about us. The presentation of the documentary seems much harder than what the video says in reality. Before watching this video I asked for impressions to people who saw it on the cable in the US and all their comments have been very negative. I was caught days ago while answering to some questions on the phone. I classified this documentary as antifascist propaganda, because this is what it seems reading the introduction on the websites (SMG productions and Discovery Times) and this is how people described the show to me. I have to say instead, after watching the work, that it is a "documentary" and not the ultimate show about the "absolute evil".
If I ever missed anything or did not understand anything or if you just want to post a comment (including the expected "go to hell"), you can send a message to my forum (you don't need to register) or to my email address: viking@ashtree.org
Contents
Length limitation (about 1 hour) and lack of time make also the best of the videos a marginal work. You must have asked yourselves: what to include and what to exclude? How to delineate the whole documentary? So, this is the section in which I will list (I will exceed!) your "made 30s, why not 31?", all good advices for someone who'll try to write a book - maybe - about hate rock in future, and I guess many of the things I will write down here were maybe consciously excluded, not just forgotten.
I have seen you pointed your attention to our more or less extreme faces, the "interface", so how music is spread, how concerts are organized, what different images we use, the persecution we get and so on...it's a very good video, but I think sometimes it is too "aesthetic", it often proposes some songs with "impact" lyrics but does not get into their deep meaning, imaging people outside already know about our beliefs (only in Detroit instead you captured a good deal of explanations about some aspects of white power music or when you talked about the 14 words) and sometimes it escapes too much towards descriptions of political organizations forgetting it is a documentary about music and it confines the "white power" movement into the racist thing too much.
Question number one: what is a racist? And on a higher level: what is a nationalist?
It would have been interesting to know how a song is born, in what situation. From the documentary we seem to want ethnic cleaning mostly or only and above all... and you sent my song "Don't go round with the Jews", for instance (I'll take myself as example, because I know myself), which is not a song about that topic, but about the problem of social integration. You chose from my interview my declaration "I say I'm not a nazi, I'm a fascist, I must defend my italian history"... I must comment, with or without that sentence my position doesn't change: I'm a so-called "white power" songwriter anyway, so the statement - extracted from a long discussion - is redundant in this context.
You talked a lot about persecution against our music, absolutely daily life. I think you fully described what happens to our bands and organizers.
Shawn made very clear arguments about it and Erich of Resistance added that music sales help the activities, but what's missing between these parts? It's quite clear that people like the Big Jews or the Communists persecute us (Death to ZOG! People shouted.), but no one clearly expressed some opinions about the reasons. Hegemony for example? What does it mean? What could the interests be? (I'm aware it's impossible to talk largely about it in such a video without falling out of the circle of the topic, but maybe a little idea could be given)
I think the most important reason is implicit, but at the same time fragmented, in your documentary: this kind of music is engine for activities!
Really there are harder crimes than "loving your own folk" in this world, but they are not persecuted. Is recruitment a possible reason for this persecution? You talked a lot about it, but you did not say it is - surely it is - a reason why we are persecuted, or better, there are opposite forces pulling people from other sides into their own gardens.
Very good...In total simplicity you expressed so well the moment "before the concert" in Verona (also in Britain showing true rehearsal). It's direct, it's clear... I'll write more about it later in the editing section. Another good note about the concert in Germany (it was like you were there ready to be arrested together with the skins!).
I saw you noticed how internet increased the sales and the spreading of our music... this is real. Anyway, you didn't investigate about how our music is technically and artistically produced. (You must have seen that artistic production is almost completely missing in this scene!) You showed a recording studio... but what about other solutions, live recordings and...distance recordings? You also talked too little about executive production: if you look carefully you'll find deep gaps among labels! You touched the MTV topic, but which are the requisites for being on MTV? And do we want to be there or are we avoiding? (I personally was on the charts for most downloaded songs on mtv.it...eheh! I'm terrible!)
Or did you ask yourself: in terms of numbers does the white power movement produce and prefer more musically skilled bands or lyrically oriented bands? Which is the balance among these two aspects? (Erich just mentioned something about it) Is there any kind of attempt/effort for an industrial product? Prussian Blue have an organization behind, they "aggressed" the media, they have a tv crew supporting them, a network of advancers...you talked about them, but did not notice this! And how would a music industry based on political groups make difference from current mainstream industries if it takes off? What consequences does it take?
You talked about bands, some in political groups, others external, but which are the differences between a band in politics and a band which is not? Is music more transversal when outside the party?
What about the "fans"? How much do they spend? How do top seller products change according to age, country, income...of buyers?
What about peer-to-peer and how does it damage our scene? How do fans interact and cultivate their interest (forums, mp3-video-photo uploads, blogs and original websites...)?
The Turner Diaries: cutting that part there was place for all these aspects or for another band... I would have chosen Kolovrat or some other band from Eastern Europe.
I appreciated the fact - and now I'll be killed for this - that you didn't mention Ian Stuart so much, but your analysis of "hate rock" has been contemporary.
I liked a lot the line you followed, visiting the concerts and their backstages as self-talking environments.
What's really missing? I'm not the only one who states this: I think you didn't focus at all on the metal scene, such as Burzum (whose cds are sold at your local Virgin Megastore!), or neofolk (I'm considered neofolk, but I'm not one of the exemplary artists who play this genre). You didn't talk about the pagan and christian subcurrents and their struggles (oh, so wrong to have religion and politics together... but this happens!).
And what else... you didn't see there are some professionists who make this music and who are trying their way outside the movement. (I won't nominate, because I'm not sure I am allowed)
I'm sorry to say this final thing, because your work really deserves many honours, but this documentary is still a "flouring" of white power music. I'm very critic about this, yes, like a spinster teacher, because the attempt was really promising and mature this time!
So, sincere congratulations!
My experience on the set and the comments of the old aunts...
I have to award the professionality of those who worked on this documentary, obviously in particular those 3 nice guys I mentioned on "Gloucester Road" (I don't know the others...).
It was not my first time on tv and on press in general. Apart from right-wing press stuff, my relationship with the out-of-the-ghetto press has always been quite stormy...
do you remember, folks, for example, my pics with the bottle or when (on Italian satellite tv) a prestigious reporter aggressed me and cut my hair?
I have to say this time I was treated like a princess. I spoke, answered to questions, I was not aggressed, never interrupted and I have eaten and drunk.
I was shown on the screen like a normal girl with a guitar during a possible ordinary moment of my life - ok, Magnus and Katana are still laughing on the floor saying I walk like a duck. Also all the other people in the video are "men and women".
I received some complaints via email about what I didn't say in the video...
you have to know, sometimes I speak too much and I had promised my close mates of Ashtree things about defence topics and scientific reseach and paganism, because these are important themes in our struggle here at Ashtree Records.
You didn't choose anything of this and ok, it's your choice.
To those who say I'm shown for a too short time on this documentary I reply:
I have always tried to fill my music with hidden messages and now I appear on this video as a subliminal message, so I don't see the problem!
Audience
Some people said your documentary is too British. Well, in my opinion since you are British and the documentary was first produced for Five and then distributed overseas, I think you might have some British audience.
I would like to write down some personal observations and I would like to propose some new hint for reflection and curiosity.
Before investing money on any television production, you must have an idea about the audience to which your product is addressed. It's hard - believe - it's hard to find a man who's got no interest or simply never heard of "hate rock", who sits down in front of the tv and watches a show like this. It's not ignorance... it's a situation like going back home, tired from work and just relax with something pleasant which depends on tastes. You know, television is still not "programmed" by audience (even digital terrestrial, which is sold like "power in the hands of the spectators!") anyway the man, who's God with the Remote Control, could choose a documentary about lions rather than sieg heil sieg heil...
You talked about "arising hate rock". Do you think hate rock is arising alone or is it accompanied by the number of people who are interested in watching your documentary on tv? (Remember, we sell cds because there are fond listeners)
I'll try to be clearer. I have the curiosity to know, whether you considered to produce this video because there are a lot of people who would like to know more about the topic.
Somebody shouted "another jewish thing!"... no, I think, instead, as Orwell's Big Brother teaches, the unwanted truth is hidden! You DO show hate rock, so I see no jewish conspiracy.
MacIntyre
Donal, what kind of name is that? Anyway, I thought MacIntyre was much worst, according to what my nice cooperator from our Press Room Neil Rush said: "George Clooney on holiday". Oh, God, I thought, What is it?
I'm watching from far away Italy. The times I was in Britain I never had the opportunity to see this man in action on tv, so this is my first time. I read his name and I searched on internet. His photos on his website don't make good impression of him as professional figure... I'm not becoming a bigot...
I would like to focus again on the introduction written for this documentary. As I said above it seems a factious introduction, referring to words like "disturbing rise of the racist and anti-semitic music industry". It's true, I should not connect the man with the words reported above, but - this is an advice - pay attention, Mac, because you may fall into the well known tv trap of "kindness", a disease attacking media... nobody's safe!
The history of times has taught: good-looking = kind.
Anyway, Mac, I know you too little to go on discussing this.
I found the location where you spoke adeguate. It was very "hip hop" style and in a certain way "opposed" to white power and since you are an external viewer (I'm not saying you're hip hop or black) the thing unconsciously matched somehow.
I'm sure, I bet 50 pounds, you didn't think about this, but the location was chosen because it was more "streetlife" and more "bad macintyre".
Video & Sound Editing
I cannot say much about filming, because I haven't got the requisites to talk about it, but I can say something about the editing, since it is a bit my cup of tea.
There's not much to say in reality. It's a professional work and done by masters.
I'm a little (some one would rather say "short") beginner - even though somebody has the courage to pay me for editing stuff - but I think I should examine.
I already talked about it, but I should add in this section that the times used to describe the different moments of the Verona event are as precise as a clock.
Sometimes too much "tourism" (indispensable, I don't deny!) cutting time for significative information. A "tourism" like the one in Detroit with explanations of places and local fauna is the good solution.
Sometimes maybe too long zoom in, zoom out on still images and...I don't remember,
I maybe took note about some too slow transition... but those are choices and strategic "fill holes" and pauses, change of rhythm...
The "futuristic" images + music leading to title "Hate Rock" after the introductive speech are like putting Madonna's "American Life" as soundtrack for a documentary about nuns. I don't know if this intro is stylistically in common with other documentaries from your series, but really here it is a punch in an eye.
I think the introductive speech was enough, since it was a sort of well done summary, it could lead to title "Hate Rock" perfectly.
The last 20 minutes of the show are much slower than the first part. Is it my impression?
Too long uncut videos, less movement... in my opinion, after about 40 minutes play, such a video should get a faster rhythm because it's like the audience - I don't want to say it falls asleep - is eating 300g of pasta and after all this food you may get enough of it.
Sometimes different speeches of a same person taken in different places, with too different noise backgrounds, are attached like a continuous speech but the contrast is too evident.
You should have overlapped or attached more carefully or tried to show the video (even half a second, don't need much) from which the environmental noise is taken.
You may wonder "You, right you are telling me this...have you ever seen your own stuff?"
Yes, I have and I don't want to remember.
Article Source: http://www.articlerich.com - By: Francesca Ortolani
I finally saw "Hate Rock" the long awaited - actually 23 hours download - documentary about us. The presentation of the documentary seems much harder than what the video says in reality. Before watching this video I asked for impressions to people who saw it on the cable in the US and all their comments have been very negative. I was caught days ago while answering to some questions on the phone. I classified this documentary as antifascist propaganda, because this is what it seems reading the introduction on the websites (SMG productions and Discovery Times) and this is how people described the show to me. I have to say instead, after watching the work, that it is a "documentary" and not the ultimate show about the "absolute evil".
If I ever missed anything or did not understand anything or if you just want to post a comment (including the expected "go to hell"), you can send a message to my forum (you don't need to register) or to my email address: viking@ashtree.org
Contents
Length limitation (about 1 hour) and lack of time make also the best of the videos a marginal work. You must have asked yourselves: what to include and what to exclude? How to delineate the whole documentary? So, this is the section in which I will list (I will exceed!) your "made 30s, why not 31?", all good advices for someone who'll try to write a book - maybe - about hate rock in future, and I guess many of the things I will write down here were maybe consciously excluded, not just forgotten.
I have seen you pointed your attention to our more or less extreme faces, the "interface", so how music is spread, how concerts are organized, what different images we use, the persecution we get and so on...it's a very good video, but I think sometimes it is too "aesthetic", it often proposes some songs with "impact" lyrics but does not get into their deep meaning, imaging people outside already know about our beliefs (only in Detroit instead you captured a good deal of explanations about some aspects of white power music or when you talked about the 14 words) and sometimes it escapes too much towards descriptions of political organizations forgetting it is a documentary about music and it confines the "white power" movement into the racist thing too much.
Question number one: what is a racist? And on a higher level: what is a nationalist?
It would have been interesting to know how a song is born, in what situation. From the documentary we seem to want ethnic cleaning mostly or only and above all... and you sent my song "Don't go round with the Jews", for instance (I'll take myself as example, because I know myself), which is not a song about that topic, but about the problem of social integration. You chose from my interview my declaration "I say I'm not a nazi, I'm a fascist, I must defend my italian history"... I must comment, with or without that sentence my position doesn't change: I'm a so-called "white power" songwriter anyway, so the statement - extracted from a long discussion - is redundant in this context.
You talked a lot about persecution against our music, absolutely daily life. I think you fully described what happens to our bands and organizers.
Shawn made very clear arguments about it and Erich of Resistance added that music sales help the activities, but what's missing between these parts? It's quite clear that people like the Big Jews or the Communists persecute us (Death to ZOG! People shouted.), but no one clearly expressed some opinions about the reasons. Hegemony for example? What does it mean? What could the interests be? (I'm aware it's impossible to talk largely about it in such a video without falling out of the circle of the topic, but maybe a little idea could be given)
I think the most important reason is implicit, but at the same time fragmented, in your documentary: this kind of music is engine for activities!
Really there are harder crimes than "loving your own folk" in this world, but they are not persecuted. Is recruitment a possible reason for this persecution? You talked a lot about it, but you did not say it is - surely it is - a reason why we are persecuted, or better, there are opposite forces pulling people from other sides into their own gardens.
Very good...In total simplicity you expressed so well the moment "before the concert" in Verona (also in Britain showing true rehearsal). It's direct, it's clear... I'll write more about it later in the editing section. Another good note about the concert in Germany (it was like you were there ready to be arrested together with the skins!).
I saw you noticed how internet increased the sales and the spreading of our music... this is real. Anyway, you didn't investigate about how our music is technically and artistically produced. (You must have seen that artistic production is almost completely missing in this scene!) You showed a recording studio... but what about other solutions, live recordings and...distance recordings? You also talked too little about executive production: if you look carefully you'll find deep gaps among labels! You touched the MTV topic, but which are the requisites for being on MTV? And do we want to be there or are we avoiding? (I personally was on the charts for most downloaded songs on mtv.it...eheh! I'm terrible!)
Or did you ask yourself: in terms of numbers does the white power movement produce and prefer more musically skilled bands or lyrically oriented bands? Which is the balance among these two aspects? (Erich just mentioned something about it) Is there any kind of attempt/effort for an industrial product? Prussian Blue have an organization behind, they "aggressed" the media, they have a tv crew supporting them, a network of advancers...you talked about them, but did not notice this! And how would a music industry based on political groups make difference from current mainstream industries if it takes off? What consequences does it take?
You talked about bands, some in political groups, others external, but which are the differences between a band in politics and a band which is not? Is music more transversal when outside the party?
What about the "fans"? How much do they spend? How do top seller products change according to age, country, income...of buyers?
What about peer-to-peer and how does it damage our scene? How do fans interact and cultivate their interest (forums, mp3-video-photo uploads, blogs and original websites...)?
The Turner Diaries: cutting that part there was place for all these aspects or for another band... I would have chosen Kolovrat or some other band from Eastern Europe.
I appreciated the fact - and now I'll be killed for this - that you didn't mention Ian Stuart so much, but your analysis of "hate rock" has been contemporary.
I liked a lot the line you followed, visiting the concerts and their backstages as self-talking environments.
What's really missing? I'm not the only one who states this: I think you didn't focus at all on the metal scene, such as Burzum (whose cds are sold at your local Virgin Megastore!), or neofolk (I'm considered neofolk, but I'm not one of the exemplary artists who play this genre). You didn't talk about the pagan and christian subcurrents and their struggles (oh, so wrong to have religion and politics together... but this happens!).
And what else... you didn't see there are some professionists who make this music and who are trying their way outside the movement. (I won't nominate, because I'm not sure I am allowed)
I'm sorry to say this final thing, because your work really deserves many honours, but this documentary is still a "flouring" of white power music. I'm very critic about this, yes, like a spinster teacher, because the attempt was really promising and mature this time!
So, sincere congratulations!
My experience on the set and the comments of the old aunts...
I have to award the professionality of those who worked on this documentary, obviously in particular those 3 nice guys I mentioned on "Gloucester Road" (I don't know the others...).
It was not my first time on tv and on press in general. Apart from right-wing press stuff, my relationship with the out-of-the-ghetto press has always been quite stormy...
do you remember, folks, for example, my pics with the bottle or when (on Italian satellite tv) a prestigious reporter aggressed me and cut my hair?
I have to say this time I was treated like a princess. I spoke, answered to questions, I was not aggressed, never interrupted and I have eaten and drunk.
I was shown on the screen like a normal girl with a guitar during a possible ordinary moment of my life - ok, Magnus and Katana are still laughing on the floor saying I walk like a duck. Also all the other people in the video are "men and women".
I received some complaints via email about what I didn't say in the video...
you have to know, sometimes I speak too much and I had promised my close mates of Ashtree things about defence topics and scientific reseach and paganism, because these are important themes in our struggle here at Ashtree Records.
You didn't choose anything of this and ok, it's your choice.
To those who say I'm shown for a too short time on this documentary I reply:
I have always tried to fill my music with hidden messages and now I appear on this video as a subliminal message, so I don't see the problem!
Audience
Some people said your documentary is too British. Well, in my opinion since you are British and the documentary was first produced for Five and then distributed overseas, I think you might have some British audience.
I would like to write down some personal observations and I would like to propose some new hint for reflection and curiosity.
Before investing money on any television production, you must have an idea about the audience to which your product is addressed. It's hard - believe - it's hard to find a man who's got no interest or simply never heard of "hate rock", who sits down in front of the tv and watches a show like this. It's not ignorance... it's a situation like going back home, tired from work and just relax with something pleasant which depends on tastes. You know, television is still not "programmed" by audience (even digital terrestrial, which is sold like "power in the hands of the spectators!") anyway the man, who's God with the Remote Control, could choose a documentary about lions rather than sieg heil sieg heil...
You talked about "arising hate rock". Do you think hate rock is arising alone or is it accompanied by the number of people who are interested in watching your documentary on tv? (Remember, we sell cds because there are fond listeners)
I'll try to be clearer. I have the curiosity to know, whether you considered to produce this video because there are a lot of people who would like to know more about the topic.
Somebody shouted "another jewish thing!"... no, I think, instead, as Orwell's Big Brother teaches, the unwanted truth is hidden! You DO show hate rock, so I see no jewish conspiracy.
MacIntyre
Donal, what kind of name is that? Anyway, I thought MacIntyre was much worst, according to what my nice cooperator from our Press Room Neil Rush said: "George Clooney on holiday". Oh, God, I thought, What is it?
I'm watching from far away Italy. The times I was in Britain I never had the opportunity to see this man in action on tv, so this is my first time. I read his name and I searched on internet. His photos on his website don't make good impression of him as professional figure... I'm not becoming a bigot...
I would like to focus again on the introduction written for this documentary. As I said above it seems a factious introduction, referring to words like "disturbing rise of the racist and anti-semitic music industry". It's true, I should not connect the man with the words reported above, but - this is an advice - pay attention, Mac, because you may fall into the well known tv trap of "kindness", a disease attacking media... nobody's safe!
The history of times has taught: good-looking = kind.
Anyway, Mac, I know you too little to go on discussing this.
I found the location where you spoke adeguate. It was very "hip hop" style and in a certain way "opposed" to white power and since you are an external viewer (I'm not saying you're hip hop or black) the thing unconsciously matched somehow.
I'm sure, I bet 50 pounds, you didn't think about this, but the location was chosen because it was more "streetlife" and more "bad macintyre".
Video & Sound Editing
I cannot say much about filming, because I haven't got the requisites to talk about it, but I can say something about the editing, since it is a bit my cup of tea.
There's not much to say in reality. It's a professional work and done by masters.
I'm a little (some one would rather say "short") beginner - even though somebody has the courage to pay me for editing stuff - but I think I should examine.
I already talked about it, but I should add in this section that the times used to describe the different moments of the Verona event are as precise as a clock.
Sometimes too much "tourism" (indispensable, I don't deny!) cutting time for significative information. A "tourism" like the one in Detroit with explanations of places and local fauna is the good solution.
Sometimes maybe too long zoom in, zoom out on still images and...I don't remember,
I maybe took note about some too slow transition... but those are choices and strategic "fill holes" and pauses, change of rhythm...
The "futuristic" images + music leading to title "Hate Rock" after the introductive speech are like putting Madonna's "American Life" as soundtrack for a documentary about nuns. I don't know if this intro is stylistically in common with other documentaries from your series, but really here it is a punch in an eye.
I think the introductive speech was enough, since it was a sort of well done summary, it could lead to title "Hate Rock" perfectly.
The last 20 minutes of the show are much slower than the first part. Is it my impression?
Too long uncut videos, less movement... in my opinion, after about 40 minutes play, such a video should get a faster rhythm because it's like the audience - I don't want to say it falls asleep - is eating 300g of pasta and after all this food you may get enough of it.
Sometimes different speeches of a same person taken in different places, with too different noise backgrounds, are attached like a continuous speech but the contrast is too evident.
You should have overlapped or attached more carefully or tried to show the video (even half a second, don't need much) from which the environmental noise is taken.
You may wonder "You, right you are telling me this...have you ever seen your own stuff?"
Yes, I have and I don't want to remember.
Article Source: http://www.articlerich.com - By: Francesca Ortolani
